Pretty much anything but Ubuntu and Manjaro.
Soo… Fedora?
For desktop is is great. Wouldn’t use it as a prod server for obvious reasons.
Long live Proxmox.
I love it. This made me laugh.
But, as this month’s chair of the of the Linux User Group for Letting Everyone Know We Hate Snaps (LUG LEKWHS), I want to clarify that we don’t have a problem with Ubuntu users.
It’s Canonical we have a beef with.
Well written! We have chosen well
— LUG LEKWHS Member
I just went full linux on my daily driver about a year ago after running a headless linux media server for a few years.
Can someone explain to me why Ubuntu is so terrible? Is it not difficult enough to use or something?
I’m sure there are as many reasons as there are people who dislike Ubuntu, but here’s a few:
- They injected internet ads into search
- To many outside of the community if they have any familiarity with Linux on a desktop, it’s with Ubuntu which kinda places it in a position to newcomers as being Linux itself rather than one particular flavor
- It is very opinionated about look and feel and usability: i.e. their custom launcher and Snaps
- It’s popular
- It has a reasonably large user base so there’s more opportunity for people to find things to nitpick over.
Overall it’s fine. I’ve used Ubuntu, Mint, Puppy, DSL, Arch (btw), Fedora, and Debian. I can do pretty much anything I need to on any of them. I’ve got my preferences about the correct balance between useability, upgrade schedule, and customizability.
They injected internet ads into search
They did? Like filesystem search? I don’t see that.
It was the application browser, and they rolled it back after the backlash.
As ferret mentioned it was in the past, but they were prominent:
Woof.
I’m going to preface this with saying whatever works for you.
It’s not really about difficulty for most people.
Canonical (the people who manage Ubuntu,) has made some unfortunate decisions.
First, and I feel this has always been true, they approach their users with the assumption that they are in fact idiots. Microsoft has the same design philosophy, and it makes things much harder than it needs to be. (Some people may be idiots, but if they want to wipe the entire drive, that’s their business, right?)
Secondly, Ubuntu tends snoop on you, and certain decisions by canonical raises alarms.
Finally, fuck snap.
Use whatever you like.
But don’t complain “Linux requires constant work” after it breaks in a couple of years, instead, be free to complain “Ubuntu requires constant work”.
Also, beware that it may be spying on you.
snaps.
oh, and that time that Canonical put Amazon telemetry in the default search application.
oh, and how they just bundle up “bleeding edge” stuff from a year ago and ship it with it’s associated bugs.
It’s been a few years since I tried but it just really turned me off.
To expand on the hate of snaps:
They’re a packaging solution for apps and dependencies. They’re apparently quite comfortable for app developers to use too. There was a hiccup where some apps really struggled to run well as snaps, but AFAIK that was fixed.
The common issues are snapcraft being the only repository and the methods of pushing them:
Snapcraft is where the packages are stored and loaded from, and it’s a closed-source repo hosted and controlled by Canonical, with no option to configure snap to use a different source. That has advantages for security, if you trust Canonical to vet and take responsibility for the packages on their system, but some people chafe at that lack of control. Compare to flatpak, where you can add arbitrary repos, so any distro vendor can have their own set of packages and versions they’ve vetted for stability and compatibility, but if I want a different version than my vendor maintains in their remote, I can use a different remote for certain apps instead.
The second issue is that the classical apt system, which used to install
.debpackages, was utilised to install snaps instead, so you’d runapt install packageand expect a .deb to be installed, but instead it just downloads a script that runssnap install packageand you get a snap instead, which is particularly annoying when you previously had it as a deb and it suddenly gets replaced. The argument here is a smooth transition to the “better” system, on the premise that snaps are better and the assumption that users won’t care or notice. In some cases (the hiccups mentioned earlier) that just wasn’t the case and people got frustrated, but even if it worked, some people (including me) take issue with expecting a deb and getting a snap - if I want a snap, I’ll use snap, and if your deb is deprecated, offer me to switch instead of silently installing the alternate source instead.Thank you for explaining that. I’m new to Linux and really didn’t understand that snap thing I heard about
In that case, let me add a few more details:
Deb packages have dependencies on other packages. To install and run a given application, you will have to install other packages (typically libraries the app depends on) too. In the case of using apt, you may see it show a list of packages to install, even when you asked for just one - those other packages are things the one you asked for requires.
These packages are shared across apps. If I install one app that requires a specific graphics library, then later install another that requires the same library, it won’t have to install it again. On the other hand, if some library introduces changes that break something, updating that shared library because one app requires a newer version may break a different app which required the old version and isn’t compatible with the new one.
Snaps on the other hand are self-contained: All the dependencies are included with the snap, frozen into whatever version the snap author chose. You can have multiple different versions of the same snap installed in parallel, and each will have their dependencies isolated from each other and the rest of the system. Additionally, they come with certain security measures like restricting the app’s access to the filesystem, network, display etc.
As a downside, snaps can be larger (but don’t have to be, as they can be stored compressed because the dependencies don’t need to be available elsewhere) and take a little longer to start (though this has apparently been much improved).
So they’re not generally a bad thing, all in all. I understand their advantages, I respect that they can be a comfortable solution for devs, I like the idea behind the security measures.
For my personal experience:
I recall that the Firefox snap had issues as opposed to the deb (among other things, the startup time was atrocious for me), which was how my issues with it started, because it took some effort to figure out how to get a deb version again and make sure I kept getting deb versions. Some other app - I don’t recall which one - also had persistent lag issues which were apparently due to some permissions problem, where security evidently hamstrung usability.
Accordingly, I was somewhat disgruntled with having my working app ripped out from under me and replaced with a worse one and no comfortable way to get back. I had issues with my Firefox profile too, which turned out to be user error on my part, but obviously still annoyed me in absence of an easy migration mechanism between the two.
Again, these issues may be fixed now, and they might not be issues for everyone in the first place: if you start out with the snap, migration won’t be an issue, and if it runs well, it may well be a better solution for you. I personally resent the philosophy of “Here, let me assume you want a different thing and just swap it out for you”, but you don’t need to share that resentment.
I use both Mint and Archbang. I’m half-dead to myself.
s/HERE/HEAR/g
Arch is nice, I use it on my laptop, but desktop / daily driver is Debian.
I don’t think I’ve seen this meme format before but it’s fucking hilarious. I love that kid’s stance while hitting the bowl, he’s ready for action.
how have you not seen it ? it’s been around for ages !
but I agree, it’s freakin hilarious
I probably have, but was too stoned to save it in the long term memory…
I use Mint, by the way.
As an Arch user, both Debian and Pop_OS are better choices than Ubuntu
Don’t forget Mint.
Imo Debian with Cinnamon is better, it may require a tad bit more effort to set up but its more stable
That’s fair. Personally, I use Debian for my little home server, but it’s not a desktop OS for me.
Nice thing about linux is we don’t have to agree. We’re free to use whatever we want.
You would be genuenly suprised how good of a desktop OS it is, granted the packaged are old but keep in mind you can use repo packages for stability and flatpak for up to date software
I’m sure it’s perfecly fine as a desktop OS. It’s just not for me. I prefer more up to date software, so I recommend Mint to anyone asking, but use Endeavour (Arch, BTW) myself. I finally understand why people are always singing the praises of the AUR.
Also, if I’m going to lean into Flatpak as a packaging system, I’m gonna use it as an excuse to properly try an immutable system and see how I get along with it.
Now, all of this is purely my own opinion. Other people can use and like what suits them. I’m not trying to gatekeep or be an elitist. I’m an absolute noob myself.
Honestly thats fair, im referring to people who dont need up to date software :3
(I dont use Debian, I use Arch btw)
In that case, I’d still recommend Mint or Mint Debian Edition unless the person knows what they want. Then Debian would be absolutely fine.
Stable as a rock
But
Old as fossilised remains
For 99% of computer users thats a good thing, not eveyone wants to update or needs the latest and greatest (also Debian is three years out of date at worst).
😄 I know
(We are in a meme community)
Oh right I forgor… Uhhh… I meant its not Arch btw therefore it sucks :3
I just use Linux Mint Debian Edition for my study laptop, sounds pretty much the same - in over a year of use, I have literally never had a single problem with it (other than things directly caused by me like leftover fstab entries for testing). I know it’s what Debian is renowned for but god damn that is a stable operating system.
I currently have Pop_OS on a laptop, but haven’t run Ubuntu in a while. What is worse about it? So far (installed the other night) I just hate how slow the Pop Store runs. Terminal is quick and fluid, Firefox was good, Jellyfin setup all seemed to go quick. Installing the client for my VPN (PIA) went on forever and had issues so I just installed OpenVPN and set up a single Spain VPN gateway there. But for whatever reason that store just drags ass
The Pop Shop is definitely one of the worst things about the distro, Cosmic Shop runs smooth as butter by comparison. Looking forward to the Cosmic Beta currently due in a few months
Thanks for the tip
As an Ubuntu user, I would never say “Long live Ubuntu”.
Rocking SteamOS myself. 😜
*hear
hear!
I’m too lazy to maintain an Arch install, so it’s Mint for me. Long live Mint unironically.
Mint is one of the best versions of Ubuntu you could possibly use. They give you Ubuntu without all the forced snaps and other crap.
At that point just use Debian?
You can do that with Mint too - LMDE
Fair enough, but Mint gives you the more up to date base of Ubuntu and some QoL tools that Debian doesn’t have. If you prefer Debian, then use it. I just feel Mint is better for beginners or people who want an easier time with less tinkering.
Debian was good enough for my grandfather and it’s good enough for me. Seriously, running cinnamon desktop in Debian is my best option.
I don’t need fancy, just no breaking
Plot twist: am grandfather myself
That’s awesome. While I don’t share your love for Debian, I’m glad it exists. Without it, we wouldn’t have Ubuntu or Mint or a ton of other choices.
It’s also amazing that it works, as-is, for some people. More options just means more possibilities for people to find something that works for them and that’s what’s important.
Ever since docker became available, along with flatpak; the Linux running these became less of an issue for me
Also a valid point. I still want to try Docker at some point, but I haven’t really needed it yet.
This sounds like a great place to mention Linux Mint Debian Edition!
Which is an excellent option if you’re okay with Debian. It’s a good OS but lacks some of the homegrown tools from the main Mint version. So, for beginners or those less inclined to tinkering I’d still recommend the main edition. Otherwise yes, Debian Edition is another great option.
Arch maintenance: 0. Install it once. (The proper way)
- Every 2 weeks minimum
pacman -Syu - Every 3 months merge/update configs in /etc.
I don’t get what is with this so hard? Yes, configs can be undecipherable but 90% time the merge involves just deleting the .pacnew versions.
You say maintenance is 0 then list 2 things I don’t have to do on Mint
Remembering to bother with a CLI and configs is the hard part, on Mint I get a nice GUI with reminders that I have updates to things. You know, like it’s some time past the year 2000?
I think they were trying to make a 0-indexed list and fucked up the markdown, so install is just step 0.
You don’t have to update mint 😮? Well, you don’t have to update Arch, neither
on Mint I get a nice GUI with reminders that I have updates to things
I don’t have to do CLI or folder management to update was me point
One can argue that “install Arch properly” includes setting up a GUI button (like welcome window in endeavourOS) that triggers Pacman -Syu (or just yay) in the background outputting only warnings 🤔
On EndavourOS here, I spent hours upon install tinkering and setting everything like I wanted and forgot most of what I did ever since.
I’m so lazy I use a one word alias to update all my stuff in one go. I rarely have to bother myself reading and checking if everything’s fine (I still do it from time to time just to be safe but I do it less and less because it’s almost useless)… I even update a bit late sometimes and quite randomly in general.
It’s been almost 4 years like this now, nothing ever broke, had an issue with an Aur only once…never even had to tinker with anything.
I remember having harder times with Ubuntu or Manjaro like a decade ago…even had freaking issues with Mint, it’s crazy.
Running pacman every two weeks seems like a bad idea if you have a lot of packages… The dependencies can get dicey if you have to update too many at once.
Well I meant two weeks is the longest period i can leave the system without updating and have no problems. And i have yet to break it with 300 pkgs updating at once.
The problem is that other 10% where I have to spend my time trawling the arch wiki to fix my OS instead of like… doing cool things on my computer. If that’s what you enjoy that’s great, but your hobby is not my hobby. I’ve used arch on several of my devices, it can be great! But there’s this idea that arch is the perfect solution to pretty much everyone’s desktop problems and it’s crazymaking to see repeated over and over on here.
Yeah, I started on Ubuntu, got acclimated to Linux using it, went to mint, didn’t give me what I wanted and just dove into arch, been running the same install for 8 years now and honestly don’t want any more from my os… I also love my steam deck… It runs arch BTW 😉
- Every 2 weeks minimum
Mint > literally all OS, Mobile or PC.
😂nope
What do you mean by maintaining?
He probably means tinkering
And if so, I can’t for the life of me Invision how it’s harder on Arch than on the Ubuntu or its derivatives.
Some people just have allergy on terminal
They should use YaST
Agree
That’s the real “difference” in the Linux camps right?
Ubuntu N00bs - “what’s a terminal?” vs. Arch, Gentoo, Nix, etc users who despite whatever camp you’re in you know you can tell them “you need to enable the systemd service” or "add
option blahto/etc/program.confand they know what they means without further explanation.
Running
yayevery other day is all the maintenance I do on my arch installation.I do it whenever I feel like. Don’t even feel the need to be regular.
With Win10, the notifications used to increase my tension
Exactly. My wife is a teacher and she runs Arch daily, knowing only how to run yay.
❤️whish more people would understand that a good set up Arch does not need maintenance, just updates prior you turn your pc off.
You could even automate that, like OpenSource TW is by default.
When I tried Arch in '23, it worked well. Then I got busy and lazy and didn’t use it for 2-3 months. When I came back and did yay -sYu as I had learned, dozens of KDE and core packages were throwing errors and wouldn’t update. Unfortunate.
yay -Syu, and around that time KDE had switched from plasma 5 to plasma 6, which involved moving a lot of packages into the
extrarepository, so you had to sit there and confirm each package move (unless you used --noconfirm).You gotta read what yay is telling you…
🫣error come with a text for a reason!
I did. It told me I needed to uninstall them. 🤐
😆
I see, I guess it was assumed that the user gets, that they have to install it again afterwards (the correct version) if they still need the software 🤔
Pop_OS is what I may stick to. It’s fantastic.
