(Please when answering, assume I’m not a beginner at privacy/programming :) I know where the good stuff at)
First off, shameful confession: I’m writing this on a dying yellow iPhone XR I bought second-hand three years ago (189€). I absolutely love the look of it: the screen, build quality, are all amazing. The only problem was the locked ecosystem (sideloading Spotify/Torrent client was sooo hard).
I saw the android phone of my mother dying really fast. She currently has a Xiaomi phone that’s ridiculously big for my hands, there’s advertisements in the stocks apps (?!!), the UX is janky and everything. It looks like a bloat, privacy nightmare.
So… because it’s impossible to find a jailbreakable phone nowadays I need to buy an android and ideally I would want:
- Good screen (vivid colors)
- Good build quality (not shitty plastic)
- Don’t care about the camera (I don’t want those ridiculously big cameras they make nowadays)
- Would want to install either GrapheneOS/LineageOS
The things that scare me off:
- I really need my bank app and I need it updated so I have to use Google Play Services but I don’t want it to plague my phone with privacy bullshit (I want to be degoogled)
The things that excite me:
- Customization possibilities
- Learning experience
- Even more privacy than a de-googled IOS phone :)
- F-Droid!! (Maybe I’ll find a beautiful IRC client)
- More choices for Mastodon & Lemmy clients
- Freedom of free software.
- client for open-source git providers :)
But to get all of that, I don’t want Google, I need shitty apps (non-free software) I have to install:
- Instagram (for non-technical friends)
- GitHub (job & open-source)
- No-Ad Modded Spotify from Balatan
- Discord (gamer friends)
- Telegram (cryptobros friends)
- Steam (because I still love gaming)
Any advices? Phone ideas? I’m so lost in this ocean of choice (freedom ✨)
My current phone:
Your “ideally would want” pretty much locks you to a Pixel phone. The 7 has serious radio issues, the 8 works great (I had the 7 Pro now have the 8 Pro, no always on GrapheneOS) and don’t know about the 9, but other that all the AI bullshit they are pushing with it, I don’t really see that the specs justify those prices, specially since you’re looking at installing GrapheneOS on it.
5a was the last version with a headphone jack, so they lost my respect
That’s an across the board thing. But yes, that’s l a removed.
@hector If you want to tinker with both Linux and Android for your phone, look at this list: https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices
There are some devices that can dual boot Android and Linux (the one I know of is OnePlus 6)
Since mainline Linux works on the OnePlus 6, I think there were some efforts to get the latest Android running on it. Ask in the postmarketOS Matrix chat to make sure though
Also surprised people recommending GrapheneOS: https://youtu.be/4To-F6W1NT0
The GrapheneOS situation is crazy lol
I was going to mention postmarketos if they really wanted to dive headfirst into the degoogled life, lol
@Sarcasmo220 Yeah, I’m a bit surprised people aren’t recommending it and other Linux distros, especially when there are few rough edges left. Any rough edges that truly bother you, and you can switch back to LineageOS while keeping an eye on Linux for when it’s solved
Andrew Tanenbaum stated that for every 1,000 lines of properly written C code, there is a bug. AOSP is ~500 GB! I don’t trust other ROMs besides LineageOS because how do developers of other ROMs audit this?
I want to support the Linux phones, but I feel you would still be required to carry a second Android phone one way or another with just enough things in life unfortunately requiring ‘the app’ with no web alternative. This isn’t really something you can overcome without reverse engineering entire apps—which usually violates some stupid ToS that gets your account banned for using an alternative client. That said, the more these exact apps are requiring no root, no flashing, no unlocked bootloader, the closer we are getting to needing a separate device anyhow. Maybe my next phone will be Linux 🤔
@toastal Yeah, I wanna be able to support them too. I still have the Pinephone Pro just sitting there because of the abysmal battery life
Waydroid has most apps covered. Would you perhaps know of any that aren’t? Drains battery extremely fast though. You can always dual booting into Android (Not sure how that works) at least on the OnePlus 6
A bit unfortunate that devices have varying levels of functionality, but it’s still amazing what people have done so far
Graphene OS only works on Pixel Phones. They’re really the gold standard. Pick one from the supported list on the graphene os website that suits your needs.
i wish i knew about graphene when i got a pixel 6 pro. i got rid of it only after a year because it was such a buggy POS.
Throwing Fairphone into the pot. They’re well supported by LineageOS and have the additional advantage of being user-repairable.
But they only ship inside Europe.We need more Lemmy posts with sections “The things that excite me”
GrapheneOS
Google Pixels are the only options with this one.
No-Ad Modded Spotify from Balatan
Have you tried Spotube? It is a no ads YouTube Music client, that fetches your library from Spotify.
I can’t recommend you a specific device, but can suggest a Bootloader Unlock: Wall of Shame, which can help you choose a device, as you are planning to install a custom ROM, like Lineage. Best of luck with your device search!
That Bootloader unlock link is an awesome idea!
eh, it equates region lock with racism and feels more like an anti-corpo rant than a comprehensive view of locked/unlocked devices.
A better link would be the lineageOS devices page, or the postmarketOS devices page. These will tell you explicitly which chipsets and models are open and worth getting
can suggest a Bootloader Unlock: Wall of Shame
Unfortunately it only mentions unlocking. Re-locking the bootloader is just as important, and strictly necessary for Android Verified Boot to work.
Among modern devices, only Google Pixels support re-lockingon custom ROMs, IIRC.
Missing from the list: ASUS lost a lawsuit in the UK after lying about saying their unlock servers being down would come back up for Zenfones. While they have a headphone jack, offer good price/performance, & used to fall in the ‘small phone’ category, you can no longer unlock bootloaders with final statement being they won’t be allowing it going forward.
(I would contribute to the upstream, but I only use proprietary Microsoft GitHub when absolutely required—keep this in mind Privacy fam when setting up any unmirrored Git repository)
A pixel phone with GrapheneOs?
To update your Play Store apps you can use Aurora Store (notice that Aurora *Droid* is completely different app).
Buy a used Pixel that fits your budget. The Pixel 6 sometimes has problems with the battery so maybe rather choose between 7, 8 or 9. But you could send it to Google to get a new one but then you have to deal with them so yeah. Ifixit also has first party replacement batteries if you would choose the Pixel 6 and you would get this problem. Still I would recommend 7 lineup. Just take a look at grapheneos.org for length of support. Also 9 will be hard to find 2nd-hand I recon ;^)
This is crazy. I’m in exactly the same situation and have been thinking about getting a mobile plan with a Pixel 8 (where I would install GrapheneOS on) as those are getting cheaper with the Pixel 9 out not.
Get a Pixel 7 or newer and put Graphene OS on it. Pixels are excellent phones and have good support for custom ROMs. The Pixel 6 has a lot of weird issues that the others don’t have, so avoid it. Graphene is the best ROM for privacy AND security, and it is also relatively user-friendly.
Or, if you want an older phone, try a Pixel 3, 4 or 5. They are good phones with an older design style that may appeal to you.
/e/OS (also known as Murena) is also a good ROM for privacy, and supports a broader range of devices.
Typing this up on /e/os on OnePlus6t. Love it for ~2 years now. Signed up and support the project now with their ecosystem (64gb option).
Obligatory reply since that’s exactly my specs too :P
What issues does 6 have? My experience has been great, but I have nothing to compare it to.
I’ve heard a lot of people complain about software glitches and minor hardware issues. These issues may be due to the fact that the Pixel 6 was the first Pixel to use Google’s own Tensor chips.
Or, if you want an older phone, try a Pixel 3, 4 or 5
These are outdated and don’t get security updates anymore, and thus shouldn’t be used anymore. The Pixel 6a is supported until 2028, the Pixel 8 even gets 7 years of security updates (until 2030), the Pixel 8a and 9 are supported until 2031.
/e/OS (also known as Murena) is also a good ROM for privacy
/e/OS is unfortunately highly insecure and shouldn’t be compared to GrapheneOS or recommended. Graphene is really the better choice here.
They can recieve security updates if you use an alternative ROM such as Lineage or /e/OS.
Can you please explain how e/OS/ is insecure?
They can not recieve firmware updates. They are always provided by the OEM
They can recieve security updates if you use an alternative ROM such as Lineage or /e/OS.
They can only receive OS updates, but firmware updates are just as important for maintaining the security of a device. These can only be provided by the device manufacturer.
Can you please explain how e/OS/ is insecure?
Sure. It’s based on the already insecure LineageOS, you can read more about that here: https://madaidans-insecurities.github.io/android.html#lineageos
On top of that, the /e/OS devs don’t release updates in a timely manner, often taking 1-3 months to releases even simple but important Android Security Bulletin patches.
Take the Fairphone over the Pixel since you’re in Europe
? I’m a European Pixel user.
Better repairibility and no useless features like they’re pushing. Graphene is good but it’s not the only privacy-focused Android distribution
Buy unlocked. It’ll cost more and you won’t have the option of doing the carrier/manufacturers no interest payment system, but that’s what it costs to actually not be locked into a particular carrier for the foreseeable future.
My actual advice about phone choice is to learn the unjailbroken ios way of doing things because what you’re asking for in your post knocks out a lot of the more specific things people recommend on android devices and pushes you to smaller or not privacy focused roms.
You’re not auditing the code so you need the most eyes on it that you can get so running smaller or less privacy oriented software becomes more of an issue.
If you haven’t already, make a threat model and see if/how that changes your requirements and desires.
Check lineage’s list of supported devices.
Though after 15 years of flashing phones, I’m now on the Pixel train. I love the plastic back on mine. Makes it lighter while also making it stronger. Plastic doesn’t crack like glass or ceramic.
If you use a Pixel, why don’t you go with GrapheneOS? It is much more secure and private than LineageOS.
Google phone for Graphene is mandatory therefore not my suggestion.
Lineage should not be your alternative as it is not privacy orientated. Take a look at Divest or /e/. There are many supported devices and in terms of privacy much better than Lineage. But in terms of security it is: Divest >> Lineage > /e/
You can check what devices are supported and which suits your needs best
The Divest developer has close ties to the Graphene team. Also he is pretty determined to be a one man team and some people have complained. Calyx OS might be a better choice as it is maintained by the Calyx Institute.
